Covid-19

[Lily]

But employers are people too!

And I’m not sure I really agree about children having borne the brunt, I’m afraid, though I know that’ll be contentious here. I’m really sorry if it’s affected your son badly, though.

Also, I find that slightly unfair about choosing the business over employees’ mental health. If all these accountancy firms go out of business we’d be fucked as they do necessary things. J has gone above and beyond to take the stress out of it for the team, particularly those with children, very much to his own detriment.

I do agree with this. Everyone is in a pretty horrible boat and has borne it in different ways. I don't think children have had it any more worse than other groups of society and businesses are as you say made up of people too! What's vital is finding a way through this for everyone and taking into account the impact on everyone.

[AshleyX]

Thanks Lily, I really appreciate that.

I totally agree. I don’t think it works to say a blanket ‘any group’ has had it worse, and it’s tough on lots of people in different ways, and there are no easy solutions that don’t impact on someone.

[Ella]

I agree, Ashley (and Goat).

[Disco]

I also agree. Everyone has been affected by this over the last two year for all manner of different reasons. It's shit for everyone except Boris Twatson et al.

[Dutchie]

Well said, Lily and Ashley. In the overall scheme of things, we are all in it together. And with 'we' I don't mean the UK or Europe but the whole entire world and it's a situation we've all been trying to cope with in our own ways for 2 long years now. The uncertainty of what the virus will bring next and moreover, what our governments will decide next is unsettling for everyone, whether you're a parent, a child, an employer, a retiree, African, Chinese, British or Swedish.

Finding our way in the maze of vaccines, LFTs, PCR tests, masks, isolation, quarantine, online learning, social distancing and lockdowns is something we've all had to do but it doesn't mean any one person is better equipped to deal with it than the next. Our sense of judgment and our decision-making skills have really been put to the test and honestly I think we all deserve nothing but admiration for the way we've all coped.

So sorry to hear the new school year has been pushed back where you are, Est. Our boys go back to school tomorrow but in the midst of a record number of infections, so I feel as if I'm holding my breath, waiting for the next new restrictions to be announced.

[Dandelion]

I saw that, Est! Sorry that it is going to cause childcare difficulties. Is it possible to team up with your friends / school friends’ parents and take it in turns to have the kids?

I suspect the government are denying charging for LFTs as they don’t want a mass clamour for them. If and when they announce it, I think it will be quite sudden. :woteva: March would be my guess.

[Disco]

Thansk for the heads up Pov! I was too late but will keep trying.

[Dutchie]

I feel that children will be feeling the consequences of this long after many of us have returned to some shade of normality.

Unfortunately I feel this is true. For (most of) us adults, we have been in the same daily routine for years and this is a relatively small blip. For kids and even young adults every day is full of new experiences - going to a new school/uni, falling in love, learning new skills... So much of that has fallen by the wayside the last 2 years.

[Lily]

I understand Heebie’s point of view. Keenly feeling the responsibility of your child(ren)’s health and well-being without being able to do a damn thing about it that doesn’t cause further detriment has been really difficult, to say the least. The guilt that goes with it is very hard to bear.

I feel that children will be feeling the consequences of this long after many of us have returned to some shade of normality.

This perhaps is true of most things in life though, both good and bad; they are also the group with the most resilience if provided with tools and support. That's not me dismissing what they're going through so much as having hope the impact can be reversed. That's also me speaking as not a parent, obviously. I just think highlighting one group as having suffered more isn't particularly helpful to anyone as it leaves others feeling aggrieved. I do think closing schools again would be a horrendous idea, and that socialising and education are paramount. (Again notaparent)

[speedy gonzalez]

I'm getting concerned about the talk of lateral flow tests being charged for. I'm based in a hospital but not employed by the hospital so don't get access to their tests. They do the Lamp tests which is connected to your staff record. I'm employed by a university and the staff who are still expected to be on main campus - porters, cleaners, caterering, security and library staff are expected to test twice a week. I count myself as being on campus even though I'm at a different place.
I haven't seen any mention of the on site university workers being entitled to the critical workers tests. Even though during the last lockdown these areas were told by the government to remain open. The university have been supplying them to collect but I think they're finding it more and more difficult to get supplies. I've been ordering online and admitedly since the cases have shot up in our area I've been testing daily. Our case rate is 2,071.6 per 100,000 people so we're well over the average which is pretty bad anyhow.
I've got elderly relatives that I help at weekends. All triple jabbed but being able to do the lateral flow tests has me feel a bit more secure when visiting them.

[Kenickie]

If course it's been horrendous for lots of people in lots of different ways, and how awful it's been has been very dependent on individual circumstances.

I don't think Heebie's point is controversial, however, or that it's meant to set people off against each other. It's quite well recognised how important development in childhood is for forming the person you are for the rest of your life, eg abuse/neglect/damage that happens in early years not being reversible. All else being equal, therefore, it seems fairly straightforward that going through this in childhood is going to have more impact that when you're an adult and it's a much smaller proportion of your life.

[Edith Bacon]

I don't think Heebie's point is controversial, however, or that it's meant to set people off against each other. It's quite well recognised how important development in childhood is for forming the person you are for the rest of your life, eg abuse/neglect/damage that happens in early years not being reversible. All else being equal, therefore, it seems fairly straightforward that going through this in childhood is going to have more impact that when you're an adult and it's a much smaller proportion of your life.

I’ve been trying to think how to word my feelings and Ken has summed it up perfectly for me.

In the last two years my youngest two should have been learning independent socialising and experiencing all sorts of things that fully grown adults already know how to handle - who knows what impact the restrictions will have on the rest of their lives. ‘Resilience’ is often bandied around as a reason to dismiss the very specific needs of younger people. I’m not sure they are resilient so much as absorbent, and again, who knows what impact bearing all of this is going to have on their futures. In ‘normal times’ around about now A should have been stressing about his upcoming GCSEs. Instead, he’s stressing about his upcoming GCSEs but without the normal, face to face, stress relieving socialising that fully grown adults benefited from when they sat their exams. And on top of that, he’s worried about what might happen if the exams can’t take place - this year is supposed to be the first cohort to be back to being fully ‘sit down’ examined. But none of us really know of that’s achievable yet. Extra stress. Extra worry. Extra cortisol. Less dopamine.

Young people and children are dealing with all of this without the benefit of life experience and knowing how the world works. They are at a disadvantage and not recognising that disadvantages them still further.

[Disco]

I agree with that Edith. I do think it's so sad everything children and teens have missed out on and still are not having a 'normal' experience such as we had growing up. I remember my GCSE exam time with such fondness. Not the exams themslves but it was a very carefree summer and so many teens have missed that over the last two years.

Also to home school a child while working at crazy times to try to fit everything in. I felt so sorry for those on here and my colleagues who were going through that - luckily my work place were extremely accommodating to everyone's odd hours but that's not the case for everyone of course. I took the easy path and didn't make Monk do any school work during lockdown but that was for an easy life because he was very resistant and also I knew he wouldn't be taking his GCSEs that year and effectively he'd done most of the school work that one would do in their final year.

[AshleyX]

All else being equal, therefore, it seems fairly straightforward that going through this in childhood is going to have more impact that when you're an adult and it's a much smaller proportion of your life.

I completely understand what you’re saying here, and I absolutely think it’s been a nightmare for parents trying to juggle.

But I slightly disagree in that I think a lot of children haven’t ‘gone through this’, eg that they’ve been completely protected and happy against any trauma during it. Obviously that’s not all, or even a majority, I’m just thinking of many of the kids I know, whose parents I know well. Which is why I think blanket terms aren’t helpful or realistic.

[AshleyX]

I also think, like Disco, that it’s so shit for teenagers and students who should be having carefree times of their life.

[Lily]

It's quite well recognised how important development in childhood is for forming the person you are for the rest of your life, eg abuse/neglect/damage that happens in early years not being reversible. All else being equal, therefore, it seems fairly straightforward that going through this in childhood is going to have more impact that when you're an adult and it's a much smaller proportion of your life.

The difference is when you are abused or neglected you aren't loved, which is key and makes all the difference to a child.

‘Resilience’ is often bandied around as a reason to dismiss the very specific needs of younger people.

To clarify, I used it very carefully as I agree with you: I've seen the word used to dismiss the needs of children. I'm not bandying it around but I do think if you have awareness of and tools to support children they are easier to 'rescue' for want of a better word than adults because they are more open-minded and less resistant to change.

I agree Ashley, I've watched my adoptive niece go through her first two years at university missing out on freshers' week and the socialising which is such a vital part of uni life. I hate that we can't get this back for those young people. (and yes Dic, that summer was my best too! It seemed to go on forever.) It makes me v cross that several schools I know cancelled nativity plays, or didn't allow parents in to see them - but thousands of people attend gigs, football matches, etc.... You can't get these precious times back.

TBH if we are talking about 'children' being small people and young people as a whole I would say they are missing out on a lot more stuff than boring old grown ups so I guess I agree after all that.

[Mountain Goat]

I feel the worst for teens and young adults, the years where your life should be free and fun and full of risks and falling in and out of love with unsuitable people. Being out in the world, making a right massive irresponsible hash of it.

[Lily]

That's exactly what I was thinking Goat! Going out and meeting people and learning about who you are.

[Hobbes]

Yes, I don’t think any group is suffering more than others, but I would say for in my family, my kids have missed out on life milestones in a way that I haven’t.

Middle child has missed out a lot at uni, with a more limited experience, and youngest couldn’t have a prom. Obviously, these things might seem trivial in a pandemic, but I imagine they will be pretty sad about it in later years.

[Lily]

Yes, I don’t think any group is suffering more than others, but I would say for in my family, my kids have missed out on life milestones in a way that I haven’t.

Middle child has missed out a lot at uni, with a more limited experience, and youngest couldn’t have a prom. Obviously, these things might seem trivial in a pandemic, but I imagine they will be pretty sad about it in later years.

That's a really good point about life milestones - so many of them are covered by the time you're 21!